Comments on: See Krishnamacharya (and Iyengar) on Video http://ashtanganews.com/2006/05/31/see-krishnamacharya-and-iyengar-on-video/ Ashtanga Yoga Matters (as taught by Sri K Pattabhi Jois) Thu, 28 Aug 2008 05:18:14 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Chris http://ashtanganews.com/2006/05/31/see-krishnamacharya-and-iyengar-on-video/#comment-21395 Chris Sat, 13 Oct 2007 23:48:28 +0000 http://www.ashtanganews.com/2006/05/31/see-krishnamacharya-and-iyengar-on-video/#comment-21395 Great video of the master, I wish there was more info available about HIS swami who resided in a cave in the Himalayas Great video of the master, I wish there was more info available about HIS swami who resided in a cave in the Himalayas

]]> By: Global http://ashtanganews.com/2006/05/31/see-krishnamacharya-and-iyengar-on-video/#comment-1627 Global Fri, 22 Dec 2006 20:40:53 +0000 http://www.ashtanganews.com/2006/05/31/see-krishnamacharya-and-iyengar-on-video/#comment-1627 Get over it Alan. Never copied a cd or record before? Get over it Alan. Never copied a cd or record before?

]]> By: nybe http://ashtanganews.com/2006/05/31/see-krishnamacharya-and-iyengar-on-video/#comment-1196 nybe Tue, 12 Dec 2006 23:23:38 +0000 http://www.ashtanganews.com/2006/05/31/see-krishnamacharya-and-iyengar-on-video/#comment-1196 from the youtube account: "The film is so old that any claim to copyright has expired." hmmmm from the youtube account: “The film is so old that any claim to copyright has expired.”

hmmmm

]]> By: Madrid http://ashtanganews.com/2006/05/31/see-krishnamacharya-and-iyengar-on-video/#comment-167 Madrid Wed, 02 Aug 2006 07:59:30 +0000 http://www.ashtanganews.com/2006/05/31/see-krishnamacharya-and-iyengar-on-video/#comment-167 I was viewing this footage, and thinking over and over again... "When the student is ready, the master will appear." Thank you for sharing this inspiring piece of moving art~ I'm familiar with a handful of yoga's, but this was fantastic!! I'm thankful for the educational institute at my fingertips, and the sharing of music, video, life, love, and good timez~ I'm am witness to someone listening to a burnt copy of music and going out to buy the C.D. Those who can... will~ Keep it flowing~ I was viewing this footage, and thinking over and over again… “When the student is ready, the master will appear.”

Thank you for sharing this inspiring piece of moving art~
I’m familiar with a handful of yoga’s, but this was fantastic!!

I’m thankful for the educational institute at my fingertips, and the sharing of music, video, life, love, and good timez~
I’m am witness to someone listening to a burnt copy of music and going out to buy the C.D.
Those who can… will~
Keep it flowing~

]]> By: Fatzz Weight Loss http://ashtanganews.com/2006/05/31/see-krishnamacharya-and-iyengar-on-video/#comment-116 Fatzz Weight Loss Sun, 18 Jun 2006 02:08:22 +0000 http://www.ashtanganews.com/2006/05/31/see-krishnamacharya-and-iyengar-on-video/#comment-116 Those videos were absolutely AMAZING. Thank you for blogging them! I am very new to yoga and i have never seen anything like that. Thank you agaon. Those videos were absolutely AMAZING. Thank you for blogging them! I am very new to yoga and i have never seen anything like that.

Thank you agaon.

]]> By: Lauren http://ashtanganews.com/2006/05/31/see-krishnamacharya-and-iyengar-on-video/#comment-102 Lauren Fri, 09 Jun 2006 13:32:47 +0000 http://www.ashtanganews.com/2006/05/31/see-krishnamacharya-and-iyengar-on-video/#comment-102 Hi...I am catching the tail end of this discussion, but thought I would add my two cents, as a former IP lawyer. Fair Use: This would NOT fall under fair use. Fair use does not cover the wide distribution of copyrighted work just because it is "informative" or "useful". For fair use to apply in an educational sense, there has to be an actual educational institution using the work. The internet doesn't count. Copyright Duration: I do not remember what the duration of copyright is from the 1909 Act, or how it is extended now that the Act has been amended. However, I am going to assume that this film clip IS protected by copyright. BUT even if it were not, if a publishing company reissues a work whose copyright has expired, in a significantly creative NEW expression...say, a compilation of videos, or an annotated cut, or some such, then a whole NEW copyright claim arises. I would say that a clip like this is likely a violation of copyright laws. But the only person/entity that can claim that is the owner of the copyright. If they say nothing, if they let this wide and free distribution happen, then it's their issue. Someone who purchased the video for real money at a yoga studio might be pissed off, but the claim is for the copyright owner to make (not only to protect their valuable work's ownership, but also to prevent a dissolution of goodwill such as what may be happening here with AL and others who spent money to buy the video). This is not legal advice! Just musings of a former practicing copyright lawyer. Lauren Hi…I am catching the tail end of this discussion, but thought I would add my two cents, as a former IP lawyer.

Fair Use: This would NOT fall under fair use. Fair use does not cover the wide distribution of copyrighted work just because it is “informative” or “useful”. For fair use to apply in an educational sense, there has to be an actual educational institution using the work. The internet doesn’t count.

Copyright Duration: I do not remember what the duration of copyright is from the 1909 Act, or how it is extended now that the Act has been amended. However, I am going to assume that this film clip IS protected by copyright. BUT even if it were not, if a publishing company reissues a work whose copyright has expired, in a significantly creative NEW expression…say, a compilation of videos, or an annotated cut, or some such, then a whole NEW copyright claim arises.

I would say that a clip like this is likely a violation of copyright laws. But the only person/entity that can claim that is the owner of the copyright. If they say nothing, if they let this wide and free distribution happen, then it’s their issue. Someone who purchased the video for real money at a yoga studio might be pissed off, but the claim is for the copyright owner to make (not only to protect their valuable work’s ownership, but also to prevent a dissolution of goodwill such as what may be happening here with AL and others who spent money to buy the video).

This is not legal advice! Just musings of a former practicing copyright lawyer.

Lauren

]]> By: Alan Little http://ashtanganews.com/2006/05/31/see-krishnamacharya-and-iyengar-on-video/#comment-90 Alan Little Mon, 05 Jun 2006 09:12:01 +0000 http://www.ashtanganews.com/2006/05/31/see-krishnamacharya-and-iyengar-on-video/#comment-90 I recall reading something somehwere about who made this film in what circumstances. I think it was in Elizabeth Kadetsky’s <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0316890960" rel="nofollow"><i>First There Is a Mountain: A Yoga Romance</i></a>, but as I read a borrowed copy of that book and then returned it, I can’t check. Would somebody who does have the book care to have a look? I recall reading something somehwere about who made this film in what circumstances. I think it was in Elizabeth Kadetsky’s First There Is a Mountain: A Yoga Romance, but as I read a borrowed copy of that book and then returned it, I can’t check. Would somebody who does have the book care to have a look?

]]> By: Terence http://ashtanganews.com/2006/05/31/see-krishnamacharya-and-iyengar-on-video/#comment-89 Terence Sun, 04 Jun 2006 06:18:28 +0000 http://www.ashtanganews.com/2006/05/31/see-krishnamacharya-and-iyengar-on-video/#comment-89 Last boring post on yoga and copyright issues. Doing some research and looking at the NEWSREEL stamp on the YouTube videos, it seems that there are two probable companies that produced these 1938 films. One is Universal Newsreel and the other is March of Time. (These are the two newsreel companies active at the time, and with operations in India.) If these videos are sourced from Universal Newsreel footage, we call all breathe easy, as the owner (Universal) released all this footage into the public domain in 1976. (Go Universal!) Lots of Universal's footage is available for free use at the Internet Archive: http://www.archive.org/details/universal_newsreels The status of the March of Time newsreels is less clear, and may still be owned by Time, Inc. In either case, if these are newsreel footage, then Iyengar is most probably not the owner, and the "wronged" party may be Richard Parsons, CEO of AOL-Time-Warner. (And Iyengar selling the video may also be on the wrong legal side of the tracks!) We now return you to your regularly scheduled yoga content.... :-) Last boring post on yoga and copyright issues. Doing some research and looking at the NEWSREEL stamp on the YouTube videos, it seems that there are two probable companies that produced these 1938 films. One is Universal Newsreel and the other is March of Time. (These are the two newsreel companies active at the time, and with operations in India.) If these videos are sourced from Universal Newsreel footage, we call all breathe easy, as the owner (Universal) released all this footage into the public domain in 1976. (Go Universal!) Lots of Universal’s footage is available for free use at the Internet Archive:

http://www.archive.org/details/universal_newsreels

The status of the March of Time newsreels is less clear, and may still be owned by Time, Inc.

In either case, if these are newsreel footage, then Iyengar is most probably not the owner, and the “wronged” party may be Richard Parsons, CEO of AOL-Time-Warner. (And Iyengar selling the video may also be on the wrong legal side of the tracks!)

We now return you to your regularly scheduled yoga content…. :-)

]]> By: Terence http://ashtanganews.com/2006/05/31/see-krishnamacharya-and-iyengar-on-video/#comment-88 Terence Sun, 04 Jun 2006 05:57:49 +0000 http://www.ashtanganews.com/2006/05/31/see-krishnamacharya-and-iyengar-on-video/#comment-88 Quick amendment....the Copyright Extension Act retroactively extended copyright for older works, so these may very well be covered. (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonny_Bono_Copyright_Term_Extension_Act">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonny_Bono_Copyright_Term_Extension_Act</a>) This also seems to depend on who the legal "author" is. From a non-lawyer point of view, asking if this is "stealing" in some abstract sense is interesting. Do you suppose the sales of Iyengar's video were limited more by: 1) The people that could afford it, were considering buying it, but are now satisified because there is a free snippet available on YouTube, thus cheating him out of a sale or 2) The people that had no idea it existed, some fraction of which are now aware of it's existence via YouTube, thus gaining sales for the full video. Of course, this argument has no actual legal merit, but if we're discussing the abstract ethics of this distribution.... Quick amendment….the Copyright Extension Act retroactively extended copyright for older works, so these may very well be covered. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonny_Bono_Copyright_Term_Extension_Act) This also seems to depend on who the legal “author” is.

From a non-lawyer point of view, asking if this is “stealing” in some abstract sense is interesting. Do you suppose the sales of Iyengar’s video were limited more by:

1) The people that could afford it, were considering buying it, but are now satisified because there is a free snippet available on YouTube, thus cheating him out of a sale

or

2) The people that had no idea it existed, some fraction of which are now aware of it’s existence via YouTube, thus gaining sales for the full video.

Of course, this argument has no actual legal merit, but if we’re discussing the abstract ethics of this distribution….

]]> By: Terence http://ashtanganews.com/2006/05/31/see-krishnamacharya-and-iyengar-on-video/#comment-87 Terence Sun, 04 Jun 2006 05:23:05 +0000 http://www.ashtanganews.com/2006/05/31/see-krishnamacharya-and-iyengar-on-video/#comment-87 I'm not a copyright lawyer, but until Disney hijacked congress and got the Bono bill passed that turned copyright into a revenue subsidy for content owning media companies, copyright ran for 28 years from date of publication, with an optional extension to 67 years total, from the date of the work, for any work that was published before 1967. (Handy chart available at: http://www.unc.edu/~unclng/public-d.htm.) What the legal status is of a newreel movie (perhaps not even owned by Iyengar) filmed in India in 1938 is under US copyright statutes is a question for someone with real legal training. The bigger issue here is actually fair use. Contrary to what is commonly bandied about, copyright does NOT give the holder an absolute stranglehold on the use of the copyrighted work. Fair use is a doctrine created to allow the discussion and examination of creative works. There is no clear standard for what constitutes fair use, but the four tests outlined in US copyright law are: "Section 107 of the Copyright Act*** sets forth the four fair use factors which should be considered in each instance, based on particular facts of a given case, to determine whether a use is a "fair use": (1) the purpose and character of use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes, (2) the nature of the copyrighted work, (3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole, and (4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work." (from http://www.utsystem.edu/ogc/intellectualproperty/ccmcguid.htm) Given the intention here to discuss the nature and practice of yoga, presumably absent the motivation to capture sales from the Iyengar video, this may fall under this provision also. I’m not a copyright lawyer, but until Disney hijacked congress and got the Bono bill passed that turned copyright into a revenue subsidy for content owning media companies, copyright ran for 28 years from date of publication, with an optional extension to 67 years total, from the date of the work, for any work that was published before 1967. (Handy chart available at: http://www.unc.edu/~unclng/public-d.htm.)

What the legal status is of a newreel movie (perhaps not even owned by Iyengar) filmed in India in 1938 is under US copyright statutes is a question for someone with real legal training.

The bigger issue here is actually fair use. Contrary to what is commonly bandied about, copyright does NOT give the holder an absolute stranglehold on the use of the copyrighted work. Fair use is a doctrine created to allow the discussion and examination of creative works. There is no clear standard for what constitutes fair use, but the four tests outlined in US copyright law are:

“Section 107 of the Copyright Act*** sets forth the four fair use factors which should be considered in each instance, based on particular facts of a given case, to determine whether a use is a “fair use”: (1) the purpose and character of use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes, (2) the nature of the copyrighted work, (3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole, and (4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.”

(from http://www.utsystem.edu/ogc/intellectualproperty/ccmcguid.htm)

Given the intention here to discuss the nature and practice of yoga, presumably absent the motivation to capture sales from the Iyengar video, this may fall under this provision also.

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